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	<title>Comments on: What is Section 409A?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/</link>
	<description>Venture capital, seed financings, convertible note bridge debt, M&#038;A, option vesting and other matters explained for founders and entrepreneurs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:24:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Yokum</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-3031</link>
		<dc:creator>Yokum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-3031</guid>
		<description>@Jon - $10K to $15K sounds ridiculous assuming that you are a C corp.  Even if you incorporated DIY online and someone had to redo every doc, it would still be less that that range to redo everything and have a company with a stock option plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon &#8211; $10K to $15K sounds ridiculous assuming that you are a C corp.  Even if you incorporated DIY online and someone had to redo every doc, it would still be less that that range to redo everything and have a company with a stock option plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-3026</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-3026</guid>
		<description>Hi Yokum -&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How much does implementing an employee stock option plan typically cost the company (legal fees, admin. costs, etc.)?  My company has three principals and five employees and we&#039;d like to being offering equity incentives to key employees.  I&#039;ve heard estimates of $10k-$15k just to get the stock option program up and running, but I have no idea whether this amount is accurate.  It doesn&#039;t seem like it should be that complicated.  Basically, I&#039;m trying to figure out whether or not I&#039;m getting ripped off.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for any advice you can lend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Yokum -</p>
<p>How much does implementing an employee stock option plan typically cost the company (legal fees, admin. costs, etc.)?  My company has three principals and five employees and we&#39;d like to being offering equity incentives to key employees.  I&#39;ve heard estimates of $10k-$15k just to get the stock option program up and running, but I have no idea whether this amount is accurate.  It doesn&#39;t seem like it should be that complicated.  Basically, I&#39;m trying to figure out whether or not I&#39;m getting ripped off.</p>
<p>Thanks for any advice you can lend.</p>
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		<title>By: Startup Toolbox &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Promise and Pitfalls of Convertible Debt</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-2984</link>
		<dc:creator>Startup Toolbox &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Promise and Pitfalls of Convertible Debt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-2984</guid>
		<description>[...] issues for stock options and other equity incentive compensation, including the dreaded 409A rules.  Pro: Once done, it&#8217;s done.  If founders and investors can agree on the valuation (and the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] issues for stock options and other equity incentive compensation, including the dreaded 409A rules.  Pro: Once done, it&#8217;s done.  If founders and investors can agree on the valuation (and the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Yokum</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-1155</link>
		<dc:creator>Yokum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-1155</guid>
		<description>@Bill Mc - There are probably a few different ways to think about it.  One is to simply express the number of shares as a percentage of the company.  For example, options for an employee/director/advisor will typically be benchmarked as a percentage of fully-diluted ownership. These options will vest over 4 years for employees and typically 2 to 4 years for directors/consultants.

Another way to think about it is in terms of value provided (somewhat like warrant coverage). See the post &quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2007/05/03/what-should-the-terms-of-bridge-loan-warrant-coverage-be/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What should the terms of bridge loan warrant coverage be?&lt;/a&gt;&quot;

Perhaps even a different way to benchmark the size of option grant is to look at assumed in the money value and grant enough shares to provide the implied value.  For most companies, there will be a difference between preferred stock FMV and common FMV.  If there Series A is $1.00/share and the common FMV is $0.10/share, then each share has an implied $0.90/share spread.  If the company wanted to provide $9000 of value, it would grant options to purchase 10,000 shares.

Generally, consultant options will be exercisable for a period between 5 and 10 years.  They might be fully-vested upon grant (upon completion of services) and not dependent on continuous status as a service provider in order to be exercised. However, some may be subject to continued services in order to be exercisable.

An option grant is not a do it yourself exercise. There are various things that can be screwed up ranging from 409A compliance, securities law issues, failure to obtain valid approvals which may result in option backdating, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill Mc &#8211; There are probably a few different ways to think about it.  One is to simply express the number of shares as a percentage of the company.  For example, options for an employee/director/advisor will typically be benchmarked as a percentage of fully-diluted ownership. These options will vest over 4 years for employees and typically 2 to 4 years for directors/consultants.</p>
<p>Another way to think about it is in terms of value provided (somewhat like warrant coverage). See the post &#8221; <a href="http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2007/05/03/what-should-the-terms-of-bridge-loan-warrant-coverage-be/" rel="nofollow">What should the terms of bridge loan warrant coverage be?</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps even a different way to benchmark the size of option grant is to look at assumed in the money value and grant enough shares to provide the implied value.  For most companies, there will be a difference between preferred stock FMV and common FMV.  If there Series A is $1.00/share and the common FMV is $0.10/share, then each share has an implied $0.90/share spread.  If the company wanted to provide $9000 of value, it would grant options to purchase 10,000 shares.</p>
<p>Generally, consultant options will be exercisable for a period between 5 and 10 years.  They might be fully-vested upon grant (upon completion of services) and not dependent on continuous status as a service provider in order to be exercised. However, some may be subject to continued services in order to be exercisable.</p>
<p>An option grant is not a do it yourself exercise. There are various things that can be screwed up ranging from 409A compliance, securities law issues, failure to obtain valid approvals which may result in option backdating, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Mc</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-1151</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Mc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-1151</guid>
		<description>Hi Yokum,

When a consultant (or a law firm) agrees to work in exchange for options in a client, how do you determine the number of options you receive as a fee? For example,  if you provide $100K in legal or other advice, what are the typical option terms assuming the company is worth say $5MM post-money after the last round?  Duration? Any good option agreements online?

Thanks much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Yokum,</p>
<p>When a consultant (or a law firm) agrees to work in exchange for options in a client, how do you determine the number of options you receive as a fee? For example,  if you provide $100K in legal or other advice, what are the typical option terms assuming the company is worth say $5MM post-money after the last round?  Duration? Any good option agreements online?</p>
<p>Thanks much.</p>
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		<title>By: Yokum</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-1067</link>
		<dc:creator>Yokum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-1067</guid>
		<description>@Ginny - I defer to my tax and benefits specialists on these issues and you should consult with appropriate auditors and tax/employee benefits experts.  Please read the disclaimers. 

I have heard of many situations where the auditors are rejecting 409A valuations.  At the end of the day, I think that the company needs to appease the auditors with an acceptable FAS 123R valuation for accounting purposes, but that does not necessarily create an issue with the IRS as long as a 409A-compliant valuation backs up the option exercise price. Companies used to take cheap stock charges in connection with IPOs, which tacitly admits that the option price was too low.  However, as far as I know, the IRS has not taken the position that these option grants with exercise prices that were too low are no longer ISOs (which need to be granted at FMV).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ginny &#8211; I defer to my tax and benefits specialists on these issues and you should consult with appropriate auditors and tax/employee benefits experts.  Please read the disclaimers. </p>
<p>I have heard of many situations where the auditors are rejecting 409A valuations.  At the end of the day, I think that the company needs to appease the auditors with an acceptable FAS 123R valuation for accounting purposes, but that does not necessarily create an issue with the IRS as long as a 409A-compliant valuation backs up the option exercise price. Companies used to take cheap stock charges in connection with IPOs, which tacitly admits that the option price was too low.  However, as far as I know, the IRS has not taken the position that these option grants with exercise prices that were too low are no longer ISOs (which need to be granted at FMV).</p>
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		<title>By: Ginny Coles</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-1053</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-1053</guid>
		<description>Yokum:  I would appreciate your advice on how to handle the situation of the 409A valuation being lower than the FAS123R valuation.  Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yokum:  I would appreciate your advice on how to handle the situation of the 409A valuation being lower than the FAS123R valuation.  Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Black</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-990</guid>
		<description>re:my query of July 10: The note is only convertible into class B preferred shares...no cash. The note was given in lieu of cash compensation. The company is pre-revenue and needs to raise funds thru the class B offering. An outside investor is buying 60% of the B shares for $1.61/share. At that time, the notes will convert to B shares at the same price ($1.61). Until the B actually closes there is a high probability of bankruptcy and default. Does the fact that the company does not have to pay cash to redeem the note put the deferred comp. outside the realms of 409A?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re:my query of July 10: The note is only convertible into class B preferred shares&#8230;no cash. The note was given in lieu of cash compensation. The company is pre-revenue and needs to raise funds thru the class B offering. An outside investor is buying 60% of the B shares for $1.61/share. At that time, the notes will convert to B shares at the same price ($1.61). Until the B actually closes there is a high probability of bankruptcy and default. Does the fact that the company does not have to pay cash to redeem the note put the deferred comp. outside the realms of 409A?</p>
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		<title>By: Yokum</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>Yokum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-874</guid>
		<description>@Burt - if the company did a Series A with institutional venture capital investors, then the company should get a 409A valuation. The &quot;old school&quot; 10 to 1 preferred to common price ratio would not be an unusual result for a pre-revenue company. Of course, any rules of thumb like this are not proper accounting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Burt &#8211; if the company did a Series A with institutional venture capital investors, then the company should get a 409A valuation. The &#8220;old school&#8221; 10 to 1 preferred to common price ratio would not be an unusual result for a pre-revenue company. Of course, any rules of thumb like this are not proper accounting.</p>
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		<title>By: Burt Ti</title>
		<link>http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/comment-page-1/#comment-873</link>
		<dc:creator>Burt Ti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startupcompanylawyer.com/2008/01/19/what-is-section-409a/#comment-873</guid>
		<description>Yokum,
Our startup is struggling with the strike price on our first grants of options under our employee stock incentive plan.  We did a Series A preferred at $1 a share, but aren&#039;t particularly sure if that&#039;s relevant.  I&#039;d obviously like to grant the common shares at a fair price, but share the concerns in a prior question related to future valuations.  Do you have any tips on a valuation analysis my board could use?  We are pre-revenue, so any process at this point seems arbitrary.  Thx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yokum,<br />
Our startup is struggling with the strike price on our first grants of options under our employee stock incentive plan.  We did a Series A preferred at $1 a share, but aren&#8217;t particularly sure if that&#8217;s relevant.  I&#8217;d obviously like to grant the common shares at a fair price, but share the concerns in a prior question related to future valuations.  Do you have any tips on a valuation analysis my board could use?  We are pre-revenue, so any process at this point seems arbitrary.  Thx.</p>
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